Deanna Raising Joy

Rhandyl:

Hey y'all, today we're talking with Deanna Dawson. She is a counselor here locally in Lubbock, and she is also a parent of a disabled kid. But before we get into our recording with her, we wanted to update you guys on how our lives have been in the last few weeks. We decided to start each new episode  updating you guys on our current life situation, just to let you guys have a little insight on the daily life of raising disabled. Anyway, so Deonna, how have you guys been since our holiday catch up?  

Deonna:

The last two weeks were so busy. And as you can tell, I'm not gonna sound like this the whole recording, but I am sick right now. And so fun, fun for me. And yeah, this last two weeks has been fun sickness at our house. Allie had her birthday last week and it was super fun and everybody was in town. She had a school play and I'll talk about that in a second, but we did her birthday and it was really fun. I did make one of my cakes that I talked about. And so her birthday cake turned out really cute. Oh, it was so cute. And it tasted good, which was  like, I feel like the art side in me is like. I want it to look cute, I don't really care if it tastes good. But everybody else wants the opposite of that, so thank goodness it was also good. But we had her birthday and then Saturday she started acting kind of funny and my parents were still here. And we were supposed to go out and do all this stuff and we didn't get to go do any of that because her blood pressure. 

Which for a paralyzed person, blood pressure is a very dangerous part of this, and she has something called autonomic dysreflexia. Which basically means any little irritant or illness, I mean, anything from like a little hangnail, any little pain can cause their blood pressure to go to near fatal levels. And so her blood pressure was like 188/122, which is not good, like ICU worthy blood pressure. And so we managed it from home, but yesterday we went to the doctor and me and her both have strep. So it's just, it's crazy because. Strep's not a big deal. It's, it's just such not a big deal. But when she gets something like that, it can be really bad. So we're on antibiotics and everything. So it's all good. But yeah, the throat is not sounding cute for these first few minutes.  

Rhandyl:

Yeah, we both have had strep, I had strep last week and I haven't had strep since my childhood maybe, it was crazy, but I was sick before that. So I think it was my immune system.

So yeah, a couple of weeks ago, actually on my birthday, started feeling really bad and ended up having a bad virus and Remi got it. And so her and I were down for about five days. And then I had about a day of feeling normal and then I'd strep so it seems like everything's back to normal. And our nurses were sick. So we had lots of call ins. So we were sick and we didn't have nurses. So everything fell apart for about two weeks there but we're back to routines. Yeah. 

So as you got your first cake done, I actually finally felt myself enough to complete one of my new year goals. I got my pantry organized over the weekend and you know, you're adulting when that is like a big thing. Cause it was so funny, it took me all day to do it and then that night, I kept just going in there and looking and oh yeah, such a dork, such a dork. 

Deonna:

But no, I do that every time I organize or clean out. I go and look at it like 30 or 40 times and I'm like, yes, I do that too. Yeah, and last week Allie was doing, it was her birthday, but she also, like a few months ago, she said that she had tried out for a speaking role in her play. And I just thought. Why did you do that? Because I, and I used to do that stuff. I used to sing and I mean, do all these things.

And so, you know, it's not scary to me, but my kid who's disabled and everyone's looking at her anyways. And apparently the kids were supposed to all wear neutral colors and I did not get the memo on that. She had a hot pink dress on in the middle of everyone. So. It was nice, like, and in case people weren't looking at her, they definitely were, yeah. So here we are. But she wanted to do a speaking role, so she got one line. And I mean, we practiced it a thousand times and I was telling her you're on a vent, you're on a trach, you're quieter than everybody else, say it as loud and proud as you can, and she was saying it so well, we were practicing it, and then Friday she did the play, and she was a little nervous, but she said it so fast, it was hilarious. Like, I mean, you can't even understand what she said, but she said it, and she did it, and she was really proud of herself, and I mean, as a parent of a disabled kid, we celebrate every little thing. I mean, just in a different way. And so all these parents are watching their kids and I'm about to start crying and I'm not even a very emotional person, but it was just such a cool thing getting to see her. 

Rhandyl:

Yeah, probably something you never thought she would be able to do. 

Deonna:

Yeah. You know, I mean, like, we didn't hear her voice for, over a year because of the trach and the vent and all the things, and it's came back a lot because of Pulmonologist adjustments and things like that and we're really lucky but oh it was crazy. So that was definitely exciting It was, it was such a little thing to everyone else, but to me it was a big deal and a big deal too.

Rhandyl:

Yeah, that’s awesome. Speaking of speech, Remi, she started back to speech therapy this week for the first time since Christmas break and her speech therapy is, With her AAC device, her speaking tablet. And so she had a new student that was working with her. And usually, she tries to make them do all the work, she fools them, she ignores them…

Deonna:

But she's so cute, she can get away with it.  

Rhandyl:

Oh gosh, she's a mess. But she actually did really well with the student, and the student did really well with her. I think a lot of the times when they first are getting to know her. They're scared of Remi, but she didn't let her get away with stuff. So I was like, yeah, I like her.  But yeah, a funny thing that she did speaking of her device since we last chatted, we had a nurse come over to interview. And those of you that know, that have home health nursing, or history of it, know that you kind of know automatically if it's going to be a “no.” And so we were all thinking it in our head, and as soon as this nurse comes in, Remi goes over to her Communication device and just starts saying “no”, “no”, “no”  pushing “no” over and over again to the point where I had to take it away from her.

Deonna:

Yeah, it was getting like weird and embarrassing at that point.

Rhandyl:

Yeah, and I was trying my best to keep a straight face and but yeah, so gotta love gotta love it. 

Deonna:

Yeah. It's like you want them to speak and then when they speak and you're like, Oh, please stop. Please stop. Oh my gosh. But it makes me happy that she's able to  do that. I mean, that wasn't always the case. Yeah. So I mean, it's a huge deal.

Rhandyl:

Yeah, so, anyway, it was funny, but, Yeah, we hope you guys enjoy this episode. 

Deonna:

Hey y'all, we're back today and we have one of our friends Deanna with us today and I was trying to think of how I met Deanna and I think, so when my daughter was at Texas Children's everybody was telling me, I have to meet Deanna, I have to meet Deanna, when I get back to Lubbock and I thought, okay, who is this Deanna, what is going on?

I actually went to the same college as you. Not at the same time though, right? Right. We missed each other a little bit. Yeah. But at Lubbock Christian? Yes. Okay. At Lubbock Christian. And she's older than me. Yeah. She's an old lady. I'm an old lady. But yeah, so we went there at different times, but when we got here. 

Obviously, my son Cole needed counseling, she's a pediatric counselor and so, Allie needed counseling too, but it, Cole was worse, honestly, at the time, Allie was handling her own diagnosis way better than my son. And so we immediately got Cole in counseling with her and she really helped him through a lot of bad stuff and so that's how we met Deanna and you said you know Deanna from before too, right?

Rhandyl:

Yeah. So, it's crazy. So I actually met Deanna in 2013 or 14, I'm trying to remember. So I was still a student. I was a baby. I was doing my clinical. Yeah, I was doing my clinical rotations. And my clinical instructor, she was actually Deanna's daughter's physical therapist, and so, and I was not a mom, not even thinking about being a mom, didn't even know if I wanted to be a mom at that time. But I just remember meeting their family and just thinking to myself- oh wow you guys were inspiring parents basically.

And so, I've thought about you guys a lot over, of course even before I had kids, but especially now since I've had kids. You're such an inspiring mom and now, yeah, you're very inspiring in so many ways. So, it's been 10 years and, I had no idea  that I'd be hosting. That You would be in my shoes now. Yeah. You'll have a lot in common now. It's crazy. Yeah. Who knew?  

Deonna:

So Deanna, we want you to tell everybody about yourself and just about your family and we'll get started with that. 

Deanna:

Yeah. So I'm Deanna and we have had a crazy life and didn't expect this journey to be what it was, but we're just rolling with it every day. I'm 41 and we have four kids, three of which are biological. We have a daughter that is 15, and she was our first kiddo, everything's fine, easy peasy. Then we have a son that is 12 now and we have a five year old that are all three biological.

And then we adopted Joy when she was about two and a half. And we just stopped fostering. We've been fostering for the past 10 years. And we just let go of our last baby in September and she was our number 20. So we fostered 20 kids over the last 10 years. Oh my gosh, I didn't know it was that many.

Oh gosh, yeah, it's a lot. We're like, this sounds, this seems like a good place to be all done for a while. It's a good even number. Yeah. 10 years, 20 kids and Plus our own kids. And so, so our lives just came out of nowhere and we just went with it. So my husband's a minister at a church and I'm a, like Deonna said, I'm a pediatric counselor.

Rhandyl:

So you mentioned Joy, now tell us about that situation and where you fostering her and then  how did that whole process go down? How old was she whenever you guys started? I know you said you adopted her at what, two and a?

Deanna:

Yeah, she was two and a half when we finally adopted her, but we actually got her out of the PICU when she was five months old. Okay. So we got, we had fostered for about three months before we got the call for Joy. We had just had two other kiddos. And oddly enough, the one right before Joy had also been shaken. And so we had a few weeks of experience of having a kid that was shaken. 

Rhandyl:

What do you mean by “shaken”?

Deanna:

So shaken baby syndrome is just literally what it sounds like. Someone grabbing a baby and shaking them. And that's Joy's full diagnosis is shaken baby syndrome. Now that comes with all sorts of other diagnoses because of the full body nature of that when you're so little. But that's her general diagnosis and. 

Rhandyl:

And you knew that  she had shaken baby syndrome?

Deanna:

Yeah, we knew when they called us for her, they, we knew my husband's father had passed away the day before we got the call for her, which is just a good, God story in between all of that. But so my husband's dad passed away and then the next day we found out that the other baby that we had was leaving and we'd already attached to him over the last four weeks. And so we were upset about that, upset about Aaron's dad dying and then we got the call for Joy and our agency was like, we know that y'all are in the middle of all this grief stuff. And she was like, so take your time, don't feel like, but the lady said it, I just really felt like the Holy spirit told me to call you for her.

Wow. And then you're like, okay, we better listen. And so you're like, are you sure? You're like, really? Because that sounds like a lot. Yeah, it was interesting. So, we said, well send us the stuff. We'll look over it. Cause you can read about kids  before they're placed with you. Right. And so we read over all her stuff and basically what we read was she's blind. She  we really thought she was going to die. So we weren't planning a place for her yet. She's been in the hospital six weeks. She's had eye surgery, she has broken bones, she has, X, Y, Z, it was just a laundry list of things. And they expected her to be fully vegetative. 

So we were going in to see this little, at the time she was four months old, little four month old baby that  we were expecting to be vegetative forever. And, of course we, prayed about it, talked to our family about it, and we just couldn't get over. At least not going to meet her.  And so they   let us go meet her and we walked in and she was just laying limp in the bed as this tiny little baby and had a little eye patch on cause she had just had an eye surgery and she was just darling and we looked at each other this is our baby, and 

Deonna:

She's so cute now, I can't even imagine back then. 

Rhandyl:

She was adorable. I remember that. She was so, yeah. She was a baby when I met her. 

Deanna:

Yeah, and so, she, it was, we just couldn't leave her there. We knew we couldn't leave her there. Yeah. And for the last six weeks, different, People had been coming in and taking care of her because none of her family was allowed to be around her, of course, because her biological dad had shaken her numerous times, her older sisters had to watch and could, reenact it and which they did, to get her removed. And so none of her family was allowed to be there, her sisters hadn't seen her in six weeks, didn't know what was going on with her, so just the trauma of all of that. 

And just realizing what kind of a commitment we were making at the time and saying, okay can we get past the funeral of my father in law before we take her home? And so they were totally great with that, of course, and couldn't find a home for her anyway because of her high medical needs. And so. Yeah. They were, I think they were just willing to have anybody that was gonna take care of her, come take care of her. But we had to room in and they had to make sure that we could, were competent and could take care of her and weren't like crazy people. 

Deonna:

Well fostering hard anyways, then you tack on the problems our kids have. I'm like, are you crazy? That's like a whole nother level, I can’t even imagine. So hard. 

Deanna:

Yeah, it's it was definitely not what I expected my life to be like, and I'm not really still sure how we got here Yeah, and so It really was just a really sweet moment of realizing.

Rhandyl:

How old was she whenever you guys were able to take her home? 

Deanna:

So we, I mean she was ready to go. 

Deonna:

Oh, she didn't need to recover. It was crazy. 

Deanna:

So she had been there for six weeks already. Oh, okay. 

Deonna:

She had already. Yeah, she was covered basically .  

Deanna:

They just didn't expect her to live past the first hour she was there, and so she was vented for nine days, had all these eye surgeries, she had broken bones, so they did all the things there in PICU that they had to do over the last six weeks. She, you know, had an NG tube and all that. But  she was able to eat on her own before we took her home. And so we spent the night with her and got to take her home the next day. So it was a  pretty quick transition. My kids were five and two. 

Rhandyl:

So when you decided to take her home and foster her, had you guys, you and your husband, did you know right then and there that you guys wanted to adopt her or did it take some time? 

Deanna:

I think the connection was there immediately but in foster care, you just really have to guard your heart. And so. It's usually just a pretty, quick turn around. Yeah. We knew that her case would be a little bit different just because of the severity of it. So yeah, that's next level. Yeah. They're not going to let her go back home. So, right. But we did spend the next two and a half years fighting her birth parents. Not that we wanted to fight them, but that they were dangerous and didn't need to go back home. And they were really just trying to get her back and obviously didn’t. They're, they both are in prison for that. And so, dad got life in prison and mom got 15 years.

Deonna:

I did not know that. Yeah. I knew, but you guys have allowed her to have some sort of relationship with some of the other family members, right? Or something like there's something a little bit..

Deanna:

That’s a sweet part of the story yeah, but not Mom and dad. 

Deonna:

That makes sense. Okay, so I feel like everybody's heard about shaken baby syndrome, but I mean, what did that do to her, just so people understand.

Deanna:

I don't think people understand maybe the severity of it.

Deonna: 

It's not like you get over, I mean, maybe in some situations you can get over some parts of that, but  like Joy's not getting over this, right?

Deanna:

No. This is a lifelong thing. It's a lifelong diagnosis, especially hers because hers is just so, so severe. Right. So. When you shake a baby, you're holding them usually by their rib cage. And so Joy had posterior rib breakages, which is, I guess, just one of the telltale signs of shaken baby. And so she had fractured ribs, a broken femur. Her retinas didn't detach, but that's a pretty common thing for shaken baby. Like when your head is going back and forth, your retinas are, I mean, it's just so sensitive. 

But hers didn't detach, but her optic nerves were killed. So basically one of her optic nerves is completely dead. So her eyes work, but there's nothing coming in, if that makes sense. So your optic nerve has to translate everything, but when they're dead, it's like nothing is there. So, her left eye is completely blind and her right eye has about a quarter of an eye that works, we think. Yeah. But her prescription's like negative 15, so she can't see anything. Oh my gosh. She's got nothing. So  she's legally blind, obviously. And so she's had eye surgeries at the very beginning for that, it was really just to get the blood hemorrhaging stopped from back there behind her eyes. Right. So they really can't do anything. 

If I were estimating from looking at brain scans and stuff, I would estimate that 40 percent of her brain matter is dead. Maybe more, but man, you don't, they never want to tell you that you're like, can you just show me how much is? They can't. But, and then she has a pretty severe cerebral palsy from that. And then her cognitive delays are pretty severe. She's almost 11 and I would put her at like 18 months to two years old cognitively in most of her areas. So it is a lifelong diagnosis. It came with seizures. It came with, a bunch of medications. I mean, she's still on a bunch of medications and I'm sure, just global developmental delays and behavior.  

Deonna:

And she's in a wheelchair a lot, or she can she do the walker? 

Deanna:

Not really. She can, and so then she's frustrated, because she wants to be  independent, but she runs into things. So you know, then you're like, well, that's not really good for anyone.

Deonna:

The first time I met her, the boys were at skate camp, and she's walking with was it a walker? She walks off the edge of this little little step and falls. And everybody else is used to Joy and knows that Joy falls because, I mean, she can't see.

Yeah. But I am new, I'm new as a mom of a disabled kid, first of all. This was really one of my first. And then I'm new to, I'm just new to the whole like getting out with Allie, everything, and I'm like, oh my gosh. And I'm freaking out that Joy fell and like Deanna and all her friends who all have disabled kids are like, oh yeah, she's fine.

I'm like, oh my gosh, and they’re like that's just Joy. And now I do the same stuff with Allie, like something will happen to Allie and I'm like, she's fine.  It was so funny. Oh no, I do the same thing with Allie now but I remember thinking, oh my goodness, like she can't see, but now we see her in a chair and everything. Yeah. 

Deanna:

And it's funny cause I'm sure other people have this issue, but Joy's just disabled enough to need some stuff, but just makes enough progress to get denied for everything. So her insurance hasn't paid for a wheelchair in nine years, because they just keep denying it because she can walk 10 feet, unassisted. I'm like, well, yeah, but if there's anything in the way she falls over it, she falls at home. And, it's just 

Deonna:

The world is not set up like that. I mean, there's steps and ramps and..

Deanna:

 Anything for blind people, there’s nothing and blind people with cerebral palsy. Yeah, that's. On top of that is what in the world, how is she supposed to do anything without a wheelchair? Yeah, I mean, I'm like 10 feet's not even enough to get from a handicapped parking spot into Target. No. And then what are we gonna do when we get in Target?

Rhandyl:

It's not even enough to go to a bedroom to the bathroom. I mean, honestly. 

Deanna:

No, it's ridiculous. I'm like, okay, well, I'll send you a video later of her crashing her face. Yeah, at skate camp. I know, at skate camp when I'm in public. Oh my gosh. 

Rhandyl:

So you mentioned earlier that initially they didn't think that she would make it even out of the hospital, that she was probably gonna die. Now, once you guys got her home, and there was more of an idea what kind of prognosis did they give you guys early on? Once they realized, okay, this kid's going to thrive a little bit.

Deanna:

Yeah, it was so interesting because, it was just very coincidental that the child abuse specialist doctor her name was Patti Patterson and I know she's so great, but like she met Joy before we had and then we realized she goes to our church and we had no clue this whole time. And so then we started seeing her at church and we made the connection, and so anyway. But every time Joy would do something new, she'd be like, I'm adding that to my list of things I never thought I would see, because she never thought she would hold her head up. She never thought she would be able to hold her bottle. She never thought she would crawl. So every single milestone that she hit, she was just flabbergasted because she said, we didn't think she was going to live through the night when they brought her to the hospital. 

Deonna:

And she's seen it all, so if she was seeing that, it must have been really bad.

Deanna:

Yeah, she says Joy's the worst case of shaken baby she's seen in her career. Oh my gosh. And so, there is such a big spectrum of shaken babies. Yeah. So, Joy is definitely, the most dire, of course. On the extreme, yeah. And so, her life looks a lot different than a bunch of other kids with shaken baby would probably. Yeah. Oh man, that's crazy. 

Rhandyl:

So her prognosis changed regularly with her.. It just changes daily. I understand that because that's kind of how we never know one day. Yeah.  

Deonna:

That's why I always sound really morbid because I mean, when I talk to you guys, you guys know this and you're used to these conversations, but I'll be talking to somebody outside of this world and I'll be like, well, she's still with us when, she goes to high school, we'll cross that bridge. And they just show Oh my gosh, why are you being so negative? I'm like, that's my reality. This is like the fact that you think she’s going to hight school. Yeah, I know. And so I'm just always, yeah, it's always changing every time any little thing happens. You never know. 

Deanna:

Well, one thing Patti always tells.. I always ask her, I'm like, so, what is her long term prognosis? Like now that you're past, now that we've been alive for 10 years, when you thought she wasn't going to live a day; what do you think is going to happen with her? She's well, and she's just very medical, she's oh yeah, well, usually kids with brain injuries have a shorter lifespan and this, and I'm like, I know, but what do you think come on, what do you think, and she's no, it's just probably usually a shorter lifespan. And I'm like, so you mean 60 instead of 80 or do you mean 20 instead of, and she won't say. She's probably Oh, I thought you were done a long time ago. We're in overtime now. I'm like, okay, so  

Deonna:

That's exactly what we're like. We're in overtime with Allie. No, we're just taking what we can get.

Deanna:

And I think just we fear that just like y'all do every day just because you know she falls just right, or if she you know, she randomly had two seizures one day like a month ago and you're like what is that from? Where did that even come from? So it's just a new road all the time.

Deonna:

Yeah, it's just every day different. So how did y'all handle all the stress of that initially?  

Deanna:

I think I can not remember. Rhandyl's probably you were a crazy person back when I first met her. It was insane.

Rhandyl:

No, I was in awe. Like you were a gem even then. 

Deanna:

It was weird because it didn't feel stressful at the time. I know it had to have been stressful at the time. I ended up needing to quit my job. So I was working at ECI as a therapist and I just couldn’t take care of all Joy's appointments, and all her doctor's appointments, and all her MRIs and everything, like y'all know, and take care of my other two kids and work. And I was only working part time at the beginning anyway but I had to quit. And so I ended up just taking a job at Preschool at our church and Joy could go with me and I could just have eyes on her all the time and yeah you know have space for that. So it worked out well that we could do that So, that kind of helped, just taking one thing off my plate. Yeah. Yeah that we were able to do yeah.

But, we didn't foster any more kids until she was adopted. And so for two and a half years, I just had three, our three kids. So, and the kiddos of course were so good with her. And my son Will, who's just turned two at the time, we'd have Joy in the stroller walking around and he would say, don't touch her, she’s hurt. Don't touch her, she's hurt. And he would not let anyone touch her. 

Rhandyl:

I remember Will. I remember Will. He was at home a lot whenever I was there. He was very protective. 

Deanna:

Yes. He's very protective. 

Rhandyl and Deonna:

And he's still probably. Yeah, I was gonna say, probably still is. 

Deanna:

She's definitely outgrown him now. Her family is really tall. And so, It's funny to watch him still protect her even though she's bigger than him and outweighs him by 30 pounds. Yeah, oh yeah. He's so small. He's so tiny.

Rhandyl:

I know, whenever, I saw you guys within the last year and I hadn't seen Joy since she was a baby. And so, I mean, other than pictures.And so I'm like Wow, she's like a grown person. I'm like, oh my goodness, this is Joy? yeah. It was pretty cool. But yeah, she is, she's tall. She's so tall. 

So I know, like you said, siblings, they all of course embraced and, what about the rest of your family? How did they handle You and your husband's decision to foster and then especially adopt her especially like how was that?

Deonna:

Yeah, it was really with the timing of it. Yeah, it's like husband's family was going through a tough time when that happened. 

Deanna:

It was really interesting and I think we still don't understand it all, why it all happened at the same time, but we sort of do. Because that's why we renamed her Joy. I was wondering. Yeah, so her birth name was Jordan. And so she was literally the happiest baby and kid ever. That's cool. And needless to say, she didn't cry a lot because I think she instinctively knew that was not helpful in her life because she would get shaken when that happened or choked or whatever. And so she didn't cry for probably the first six months we had her she just never cried ever. And so, but she would laugh and laugh and giggle. And she's she was blind, but she knew when people walked in the room, her hearing is great. And so she was just absolutely like a treasure to have at home. And so I think a lot of that really helped with Aaron's family's grief and just us all having something else to focus on that was a positive thing. 

Deonna:

A happy distraction for all of them.  

Deanna:

So it was it was just healing for all of us, I think. Now as she got older and her needs were getting more and she was getting more difficult. I remember specifically one day I mean she was it was probably right when we decided yeah, we're gonna pursue adoption for her Yeah, it was sometime before two and a half years old.  I remember my mom saying-  now you haven't finalized this yet, and I just want to make sure that you know that this is going to change your entire life. Yeah. You will always have a kid at home. You will never be empty nesters. You always are going to be stressed. And at the time I was like, Oh my gosh, that is so rude. Why would she ever say that? And I was like, you just don't like her, and yeah. And of course that was not her intentions at all.

I think she was just being protective of me and my kids and my family. Of course thinking it. Yeah. I didn't appreciate it at the time and I still am a little grouchy about it. But at the time I was like, there's no way I could give this baby to anyone else. Like I am her mom and this is it. There's no way she's going anywhere else. And so for us, we knew but I think our family was like, oh, what are these people doing? You know, this is crazy. Even though everybody loved her because you couldn't help but love her. Yeah, 

Rhandyl:

But they were thinking more like future…Yeah, long term Yeah

Deonna:

I get them just wanting you to think it through but then you're also thinking of things that they may not be thinking about really I mean they may have had a quick moment of thought of these things, but you're thinking, okay, what if we don't keep her? What's going to happen to her? I mean,  

Deanna:

She's a hard sell. Like let’s be real. Yeah. In the foster care world, people would be like - no way! 

Deonna:

Any disabled kid would be a hard sell because they just have special things about them that make things harder. But yeah you guys were probably thinking about those things too, which made that decision easier in a way. It really, you're like, it's us. I mean, it's what we got to do. 

Deanna:

And her family, her biological family that didn't hurt her is just precious. And we had developed a bond with her older sisters and with at the time, then she had two full biological younger siblings that. Her parents kept having kids after that, before they went to prison. But and so  we had a relationship with all this whole family, and so at that point it would be giving up Joy and it would have been giving up her, five and seven year old sister that see us as really positive people in their lives and how to be parents because they'd been watching all this junk of how their parents responded. Yeah. And so I think it was really healing for them. And so we're like, we can't give that up. There's no way. 

Deonna:

It's a lot of responsibility on your shoulders, for sure.

Deanna:

Yeah, she was just, but we couldn't have given her up. No. She was ours.  

Rhandyl:

So, what are the hardest parts about caring for a child like Joy? 

Deanna:

Currently she just has grown exponentially, very quickly. So she weighs 94 pounds and is almost as tall as me. I'm 5’4”. So she's probably five foot tall. So her body doesn't work, so she can't get in and out of anywhere, by herself.  So, just the physical part of it has gotten more difficult, yeah. And then behaviorally it's gotten more difficult over the last few years just because she's frustrated a lot, she doesn't understand why she can't do every single thing that she wants to do or why we're not feeding her constantly or whatever, why she can't have more chips or more, and so it's just it's like working with a 95 pound, 18 month old, and you're like, it's like having a gigantic toddler in my house that I can't control, that can't see, that falls all the time, that has gigantic diapers. So when Joy was a four month old baby, that was not in my picture of what my life was going to be like in the future. 

Rhandyl:

That's what your mom was talking about. 

Deanna:

Yeah. She was like, see, I told you like, this is where your life is now. I told you she's going to get bigger. And it's funny because my mom is Joy's favorite person in the whole world. And she wants to go over there all the time. She wants to sit by her. She wants to call her. She wants to, so. That's awesome. I love that though. So it was great. 

But yeah, so those are really  the difficult parts right now.  And just like with y'all, it's a chore to  go anywhere, so my kids are in sports now and then we have a five year old, so he's doing stuff and, my husband was in youth ministry for a while and now he's a minister at church. So we're just busy all the time. And so I think that part and her needing extra sleep, but she doesn't qualify for nursing or anything because she doesn't have any kind of equipment. Yeah, she doesn’t, she's not oxygen or feeding tube or anything like that. So her disabilities are just totally different that don't get as many services as others do because she doesn't really need that but, like she needs it, you know. So it's yeah, she's one of those kiddos that's caught in the middle.  

Deonna:

That's so messed up because I've talked to so many parents like that. Their kids are they need these things and they don't get it like me and Rhandyl do. Even though me and Rhandyl qualify for things for our kids, sometimes we still can't get them because  it's not available like nursing or something like that. As Rhandyl knows right now, yeah, it's messed up that…

Rhandyl:

It is. And I, I personally, I see kids like that as a therapist and it is so difficult for families like you guys that are like you said, stuck in the middle. Can't get anything approved. You need all these things. You need support, but it's hard to get it and so..

Deanna:

Well we're really blessed that she qualified for Medicaid so easily because she was in foster care. Yeah. We at least have that because just paying for everything and there, I mean, that's a good incentive of, getting people to foster, but you don't realize how much you're going to rely on that. And even now Medicaid is denying like everything she needs and you're like, just writing appeals letters and, just doing all, getting all the documentation together to appeal why your kid needs a wheelchair, you're like, because she can't walk. She cannot walk. You know? So it's just, that's been a difficult road recently, but.  

Deonna:

Yeah. I can relate to the physical side. Like we, I told my husband the other day. I can still lift, Allie, and easily transfer and do these things, but we're getting closer and closer to that not, because my husband's a really tall guy, that's super easy for him. I'm  5’2"  and so, yeah, I mean, the physical side 

Rhandyl:

So you're like hurry up Cole, get bigger.

Deonna:

I know. That's what he said, right? He's all getting into like fitness and everything. It's hilarious. He's a sixth grader, but he's all into lifting weights and all this stuff. And I'm like, you need to get stronger at the same rate that she's getting bigger because I will need you to help me out with this.Seriously. You’re like Will, start lifting weights. Let's go. Come on.

Deanna:

I know. He asked for a bench.. It must be their age because they all want to be in seventh grade and he weighs 65 pounds and here he is asking for a bench press set. I'm like, yeah, how much do you lift? 

Deonna:

Yeah They're cute. Oh my goodness.  

Rhandyl:

So with all of your experiences with Joy and everything are there positive, unexpected, surprising moments that have happened over the last 11 years? 

Deanna:

So many things have happened over the last 11 years. That's crazy to think about. Yeah. Well, it really, like taking care of Joy at one point a random caseworker walked into our house. We had fostered a few other kids after we adopted Joy. But this lady walked in and was like, oh, y'all foster special needs kids. I have this kid that needs to come live with you. And I was like we don't really, we don't do that. No, like that's not a thing. We did one time, but yeah, that was all this was it.

Yeah. So like somehow that door got open really quickly. And then all of a sudden we were fostering medically fragile kids. And we were like, Oh okay, this is who we are now apparently. And I have no medical training. My husband has no medical training. This is where we were. So it led us into a totally different arena of being able to relate to parents, especially my job as a counselor and I counsel kids with special needs too, and their families. And so it led me into  being much more empathetic with people because I've medically lived that, even though they weren't my own kid, it still is like this kid was in my home for a year or, and I did all their medical things and I saw the frustrations of that, and so I think it's helped. That's been a positive thing just in my career. 

Just maybe being able to relate to people better for sure on that. And it's given me definitely a love of my friends with special needs. And I then got into doing special needs ministry at our church and providing a place for kids to have a Bible class that they can go to where they're safe, and where they have people that can understand them and work with them in church, which is, a huge deal that is not something that's very common.

And so, that's been a huge blessing for us just to get to do that. But I think the biggest. Blessing to me is for my kids to experience this too. It's been interesting to watch my five year old because I think we totally caused PTSD in my 12 year old because he we had fostered so many kids in his little short life and they all would leave and he would just cry and cry and cry. It was horrible. And every time one left, I was like, oh my gosh, what are we doing to this kid? We are tearing him up. That's hard. And as a counselor, I'm like, no, this is good for him. It's good for him to see that you can love somebody and do something good for someone else. And now I'm like, that was really bad for him probably. I don't know but  so we decided to try to get pregnant.

Deonna:

But I get around him and I know who he is and it's made him who he is probably, which is so sweet.

Deanna:

So I'm like, well, that'll give you topics for your counselor when you get to be a parent. Yeah. Man, my mom screwed me up something good.

So we decided to try to have another kid, later on and we ended up having a baby, and Joy wasn't walking yet. When I was pregnant with him and I was telling her therapist, okay, I can't carry her around, I'm fat; I can't do this anymore. And I was like, she has to be walking by the time that he's born, and so sure enough, she took her first steps three months before he was born. Wow. It was, not walking. Still wasn't helpful. 

Deonna:

It wasn't helpful, but it was like a moment. Yeah.  

Deanna:

It's been interesting to watch him pass her cognitively and also step into the role of caregiver of her. Yeah. And he's almost six now. So he's in kindergarten and he can tell people how to take care of her. He goes and gets her things. He can calm her down when she's upset, and he just knows exactly instinctively what to do and it just blows your mind because he was doing that when he was three.

Rhandyl:

I'm already seeing that with my two and a half year old. It's crazy. Yeah. I, and so you saying that, that's cool. It's  I mean, we knew that  when we decided to have another kid but hearing you say that, I can imagine my son in kindergarten,  telling everybody, I mean, he's already super bossy. Yeah. Telling everybody what to do and not do with his sister. That's awesome. 

Deanna:

And it's really just fun and special to watch just how they become  so protective. 

Rhandyl:

How was Joy with the little one, cause she was the baby forever. She was the baby. How was she? 

Deanna:

So, yeah, it was interesting to watch her be jealous. She really doesn't understand what's going on. And we had so many babies, like she had grown up being older than babies anyway, I mean, we had. 17 kids in our house, in between that time, but it still was, it was funny to watch her like, know oh, this kid is he's still here.

Rhandyl:

It's funny because we joked around about that because, yeah. Remi, she's not a fan even still like she's finally coming around after like two and a half years, but we always joke around like 

We always joke around and it's funny, I never really thought about it like that But we're like,  sorry, honey, he's not leaving, he’s staying here. We're still having to remind her of that. But in Joy's case, 17 kids didn't have to stick around for that. 

Deanna:

It's really funny. And it was fun to see, like, how our different foster kids reacted to her, because she's obviously different, but she still was mobile and crawling and stuff, so it was, they were almost confused- What's wrong with her? Because she's older than me. What's happening? Just, it was really interesting to get to walk kids through that. The dynamic of it. It was fun, yeah. Wow. It was just interesting. 

Deonna:

Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's funny.  So what or who has helped you the most in this journey with Joy and what has helped Joy the most?

Those are two totally different questions, by the way, so yeah, 

Deanna:

No, it's good. So, I mean, I'm not just saying this because Rhandyl is here, but like one of Joy's therapists she. It's just  the best. And I had worked with her at ECI, but we really hadn't crossed paths until I had therapists in my house. And so her initial therapists that she had from ECI which of course I got to handpick a few of them because they were my friends and I worked there. Yeah, but Whitney was one that I did not get to pick and I did not really know her that well and I was like, man, I wanted my other friend to do it, cause I know she's really good. And then Whitney came in and I attribute all of Joy's early success to Whitney. 

Because she just, she did not give up on Joy and she did not let her get away with anything, but, and me, I was like, this poor little baby, let me just snuggle her all day long, every day, no one touch her, don't make her do anything she doesn't want to do, and Whitney's always nope, you're going to hold your head up, you're going to hold your head up, I'm like, no, she can't hold her head up, but she could, and Whitney knew that, and she had experience with kids that were like Joy, and I hadn't, and so, at that point, I was just like, Okay, you do know, you know, and so whenever Joy would have a success, I was like, okay, you were right. I know we needed to do that, and so it was really hard, but it was hard to watch him struggle. Oh, it was horrible. It was horrible. Especially after all she was going to say. Yeah. And I was just like, I'm not going to make her unhappy. She's had four months of being  literally just abused constantly. And I was like, I am her protector now. She's not going to get hurt while she's with me, and so,  it was hard, but all her therapists I mean, I wouldn't have known what to do with her. I'm not a therapist. I had worked at ECI, but I had no clue what I was doing. 

Deonna:

Yeah. She's a cool girl. I've only met her once but..

Rhandyl and Deanna:

It's really her calling. I mean, Pediatric, like she is. Phenomenal. Yeah. I can't even describe how great she is. She's wonderful. Yeah. 

Deonna:

And what has helped you the most with Joy?  

Deanna:

I don’t know, I don't feel like I've gone through all this very well. At some point you're like, what have I done? Yeah.  I never went to counseling. Definitely should have. 

Deonna:

Yeah. You're a counselor. 

Deanna:

I know.. I mean, it's just really hard to do self-care and that is not one of my strengths at all anyway. And so my husband really, that's probably what I should say and attribute all of our success but really, he's just very patient and just very solid and really cares about me making sure that I'm taking care of me.

And so he's always really supportive of me going out to take a break or, him doing bedtime, or whatever, because he knows that I just, I'm going all 24/7. I'm scheduling all the therapies, I’m fighting for all the services, all the things that, that he doesn't deal with during the day.

Yeah. And especially when we, like at one point we had six kids under seven and two of them had g tubes. Oh my gosh. During that time, there was a lot where we were like, we may not make it here. Like this is not happening. This was a bad idea. What have we done? And so. A lot of tube feeds. Yep. It's a lot of tube feeds, a lot of nurses in and out. Just a lot and a lot of trauma kids coming in and out which, affects your kids, which affects you and I mean It's just it was just a lot. So I'm glad we made it through that season and we've realized, okay let's be all done and take a break for a while. Yeah, get back to where we are. 

Rhandyl:

So what would you tell a parent whose child may be going through getting a difficult diagnosis or any difficult diagnosis?

Deanna:

Well, and this is where my therapeutic world comes in because I walk through this with parents all the time. And it, I think I heard it on one of y'all's podcasts, I don't know which one, but just about having to grieve what you thought you were going to have and that being okay.

You're not disappointed. You're not upset and angry and all these things, but you have to that's exactly what happens when, I mean, when a death occurs, you go through all those stages and this is the exact same thing, just having to grieve what that perfect picture of what everybody thinks that everybody should have, and it's not, no one has that.

And so just really allowing yourself grief in that, and reminding your family to have the grief of that. I think grandparents are sometimes the worst at that because they just, I mean, they had a picture too and we forget that their picture has changed also. And so, even getting, a lot of people get a diagnosis of autism later on, and you you thought everything was going okay and then you're like, oh, wait a minute, here's a bump.

Yeah. And then you have to reevaluate or you fall off the couch and you reevaluate. Yeah. You like, okay, well here we were going perfectly normal for four years, and then trauma hit, and then you have to grieve that and then, oh yeah. I mean, you, y'all both have done that, so it's like you have to allow yourself space to do that and not be embarrassed that you have to do that. I don't know if that makes sense..  

Deonna:

I mean, like we've talked about this before, but I mean, when you go through these things, you're grieving this loss that does feel like a death to us, but to the outside world, they're like, Oh man, that stinks.Okay. Moving on.  

And we're having a really hard time and you grieve it like a death. There's no funeral. People don't treat you the same. Cause I've experienced this with Allie. And then I've literally also lost a sibling. Well, people treated me totally different in those two scenarios. Well, I was just as upset with the Allie thing, so, I mean.. 

Deanna:

And neither were expected either. 

Deonna:

No, yeah, for sure. 

Deanna:

But I mean, like Yeah. Neither were expected, but they both were exactly the same grief process. 

Deonna:

Yeah Yeah, it's like it's bad no matter what. 

Deanna:

And people say stupid things no matter what happens and yeah, like you try to give people credit or whatever, but you're always gonna hear something dumb.

Deonna:

Well, and even when kids are born a different way than you thought you're still grieving that because in your mind they were gonna be this way or whatever. So I mean..

Rhandyl:

Exactly.

Deonna:

Yeah, grief is fun.

Deanna:

I think one of the greatest things that is coming around right now is just the inclusivity of things in media and, just everywhere that like, not all the families look the same and not all the families have perfect little pictures of genetically correct children, and you're like, thank you for showing that these people exist, so that maybe it's not just quite a shocker when someone doesn't fit into that mold. So I've been enjoying that a lot lately. 

Deonna:

I think our kids generation is going to be way better than us. I mean, as far as like inclusion and things like that, I'll see ads that have kids that look like my kid. And I'm just like, thank you. Is that so hard to do? But before I wouldn't have even cared. I mean, I really wasn't thinking about it, but now it's like, thank you. 

Deanna:

But yeah. Well, and having kids in their classes because they're doing inclusion now that they didn't do before. Yeah. And so Jake and my five year old, he has kids in his class and he knows how to interact with them and is scared of that, because he does have that at home, he’s- oh, y'all are easy compared to my sister. So I mean, it's just, there's lots of good that comes from it. It takes a while to realize that sometimes, but…

Deonna:

Yeah, what resources would you recommend to a parent who's facing these same types of challenges or really just any challenge with their kids?  

Deanna:

I think kind of what we talked about earlier just realizing that there are resources for each I mean even if you get an obscure diagnosis that you feel like you're the only person that has there's resources for everything now and the internet has really made that so easy to find which is so great.

But one of our best friends got a really obscure diagnosis and she found all the support groups, all the things. So I think that really helps you just not feel so alone on that journey. Or just finding other people with kids with special needs of any kind, I mean, yeah. Allie and Joy are so totally different, but at the same time we're like, oh, I feel that, yeah, I feel that struggle. What did you do for this? What did you do for that? Even though they're totally different. Yeah. It still is nice to have that community.

And also realizing siblings like really are affected very strongly by this. And just them needing somebody to talk to about it, I mean, even years afterward, sometimes they still need it, and so just taking care of everybody, because sometimes I forget that. I spend so much time taking care of Joy because I have to, for her to live. Yeah, survive. Yeah. I forget sometimes that my other kiddos really do have strong emotional needs and needs for time with me, and you know all of those things which we didn't realize until we stopped fostering that we’re like, oh this is what real life could be like, we don't have to yeah have a hundred kids and have a hundred people in and out of our house all day every day and you know just getting to know our kids again, which was nice. 

So just remembering that and just for people that have adopted specifically, cause there are a lot of people that have adopted that need that support. Texas has a really great post-adopt services and not many people know about them, I discovered. And I didn't really know about them until the last few years, but they're super supportive and can find you all sorts of support groups or needs for your kids that can be met, so that's a really good thing to know about, so.

Deonna:

Yeah, I think those are really good points because I mean right when we moved here I met you  but  it was an instant connection with these other moms and all of our kids have way different stuff going on It didn't matter. I mean, I just knew okay, this person has been through some of the same Yeah, really bad stresses as me. These are my people. Yeah, I know we all  became friends really quickly And I don't see you very much, but it doesn't matter. But we just know we're connected by this 

Deanna:

And we know we can call like at any time, any kind of a need.

Deonna: 

It is good to think about the siblings too, because I'll plug your, counseling thing. She, yeah. When we moved here, Cole started trauma counseling with her and I mean, he, I won't share the full story because for his privacy and everything, but I mean, he was in such a bad place. I mean, he was still shaking and stuff. Whereas, cause we're adults, maybe getting a little more used to it. He was like not okay at all and she went through, was it a program, like a trauma? It was just like a trauma. 

Deanna:

Yeah, it's called TFCBT. It's like trauma counseling for kids. 

Deonna:

Yeah, and I didn't know what it was called. I knew you were doing it. No, but yeah, I mean, it was a huge difference and it was just a few months and all of a sudden he was calming down and we were understanding. Because she was able to tell us, okay, this is what you can do based off of things he's saying to help him be okay. But it was like what she was saying, we were so worried about Allie, Cole was just there for a while. And we were just, he was floating along through this horrible experience. 

Rhandyl:

Dealing with all these things in his head. Yeah. 

Deonna:

Well, and even when a sibling is born differently, like the kid is still, especially if it's an older sibling, surely it's going to be, later they'll figure it out if they're a younger sibling. That's a whole different deal. But yeah, it's good to make sure that sibling is getting counseling. I'm a huge advocate telling people, yeah, that sibling needs to be in counseling. If that happened, that sibling needs to be getting checked on because they probably aren't okay. Even if they're acting like they are, they're good little actors sometimes. 

Deanna:

Yeah. Kids are really resilient too. They are. So, I mean, like for Cole, it was just such a short time that he needed that, but it made a huge difference for him and how he can feel relating to Allie too now, which is good. But, don't put guilt on yourself if that hasn't happened yet. Okay. You like, you didn't think about that earlier. Okay, great. Do it now. Like it doesn't matter because sometimes we are living in life or death survival mode every single minute of every single day to keep one of your kids alive, literally every single minute. Yes. That takes every bit of energy that you have to even think about all day and so..

 Deonna:

Well, the siblings have witnessed these things, I mean, just, Oh my goodness. I can't even imagine from Cole, like from a young kid's perspective, witnessing some of the things that our sons will have seen. I mean, and yours. I mean, it's just, it's crazy, 

Rhandyl:

so what is the best thing that has came out of raising Joy? If you can pick just one. 

Deonna:

Yeah. I think for us and just in our community that we're in, my husband, being a minister of kind of a big church and just knowing a lot of people and people knowing who we were just because they had to, because when you preach, that's what happens.

Yeah, and just exposing other people to a kid with special needs is just so beneficial for everybody else. Like just so many people have fallen in love with her, and it just makes people not nervous. Because I feel like we grew up that way. I don't know if y'all, I'm a lot older than y'all, but don't look, don't interact with anything, and yeah, like that is not how we should live. And so, I think that has been a huge positive for just the community that we're in just having my kids friends see her and see her at home acting good and see her at home acting really bad, yeah. 

Sometimes the new friends that come over are like, Oh, what is happening here? I'm scared.  Well, we just had a poop explosion, I'm like, sorry, here it is! But her having special bonds with my kid's friends and, some things like that, that those kids are always going to remember. And hopefully maybe when they are pregnant or they have a diagnosis or their sibling has a diagnosis or something, then they'll remember Oh, okay, that’s manageable and that wasn't that huge of a deal for them, like life went on and it was fine. So hopefully just having an impact on other people.  

Deonna:

Okay, so tell us about how people can get in contact with you if they live in Lubbock or the surrounding areas, if they think their kid needs counseling for a million different reasons. 

Deanna:

Yeah, so a lot of what I do is trauma work. So trauma for kids that have had something like an accident happen or, even for kids that have a diagnosis and are aware of that diagnosis that need to process that. And then I work with a lot of kiddos with autism just on daily living stuff, just all the difficulties that come with that diagnosis and for their families and how to interact, and just make every day a little bit easier.

And then I just do all the regular counseling too. So yeah, I specialize in little kiddos. So 10 and under is really what I see all the time. Foster kids, lots of sex trafficked kids, whatever you got. Like just bring all the trauma. It's all great. All the easy stuff, all the easy stuff is what I do.

So, so so attachment, all that stuff. Like there's a lot of good things that kiddos need. I also do a parenting- an attachment program, that’s really good. That helped me in my parenting medically a ton. And so I'll do parent groups of that too. So, if you ever feel like there has been a detachment of some kind. Or maybe just being in and out of the hospital a lot, having to have those long distances away from your kids a lot, just how to bring that back together. 

Deonna:

you've counseled both of my kids and it's so funny because I would ask them after they would do a session with you, I'd be like, hey, how was it? What did y'all talk about? Or I would try to get like a little scoop from them. And they'd be like- oh, we didn't do counseling, we played.  And then I would realize  throughout the day, they would actually start disclosing stuff y'all talk about. So you're really good at  making them not realize that they're having these sessions where they're supposed to be pouring their hearts out to you, but you're getting them to talk to you. And all we did today was draw. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I know. But they don't realize what is  happening.  

Deanna:

I'm very tricky. Yeah. I had three boys come in, like teenagers come in and this whole family. And they were like, just staring at me, like just sitting there. And I was like, did you think I was going to be old and have my hair in a bun and have glasses and they all looked at me and all simultaneously nodded their heads like, yes. I have legos and stuff. And they're like, you have Legos here. I was like, yes, like this is what we do. And so like kids just, that's how they communicate through play. And so, they just really, I really, it is tricky, but not really. So it's just their language. 

Deonna:

They can tell you stuff and not feel like they're going to get judged. Because even my kids and I feel like we have this really loving household situation, but there were things that they couldn't tell me because I think they were afraid I would be worried about them or disappointed in how they were handling something or, the list goes on and on.

I think it's good for kids, in any situation to be able to have this third party. I mean, I go to a counselor myself and I love being able to tell her anything, not worrying about whether she's gonna judge me or tell somebody else or, so it's a nice, it's a nice thing to have for kids. 

Deanna:

So, yeah. Yeah. I definitely made Deonna go to a counselor. Yeah. 

Deonna:

She's made me and then you said you won't go to one. What the heck?  

Deanna:

I didn’t say I won’t, I just said I haven't. 

Deonna:

Yeah, you just haven't. Yeah, I know. But I mean, it's good. I do think it's good for everything. I'm always telling people to go to counseling, but yeah. So and your church is Monterey. That's where your husband's a pastor. And they do have a good set up for that. 

Deanna:

We do. We have a really, yeah. Someone a long time ago, a mom of a kiddo with autism, started our special needs ministry because he wasn't fitting with other kids and they didn't have the resources at the time to figure out what to do for him. And so, they started this class for kids and a program for kids that can be in the typical classrooms. And then we also have one for, for kids like Joy that are really cognitively delayed that need a special curriculum. And they just do fun activities and have sensory toys, and have a swing, and have all the things that you need to have to still, get the family to be able to come to church. Cause it is just such a huge dropout rate because churches, oddly enough, are not like super conducive to special needs friends. Yeah, and so We really try to have a safe place for kids. 

Deonna:

And trying's half the battle really? I mean just trying.

Deanna:

We have like 13 kids in there. That's so awesome. Yeah, and they all love each other and it's fun to watch the older ones Start to take care of the younger ones. So it's just really precious Yeah, when you walk in and one, 25 year old with autism is rocking a three year old, and you're like, oh that is just so precious, I can't even. Oh, that is just the neatest thing. So yeah, it's just a special community. 

Deonna:

Yeah. I just wanted to mention that in case people were wondering where you went. 

Deanna:

Yeah. And we also have like a parents night out for older for 13 and up. For kids with disabilities of all kinds and so once a month they do a Friday night, parent night out. It's like a fun movie night and they do all sorts of popcorn and all the things and pizza; it’s all, free, which is lovely. Yeah. 

Deonna:

So that's Monterey.

Rhandyl:

Well, thank you so much, Deanna, for coming on. We look forward to possibly talking to you again on some different difficult topics. Sounds like you're always up for a challenge..

**Disclaimer

Before we go, I wanna remind our listeners that this podcast is for the purpose of education and entertainment only, and is not a replacement for seeing a doctor. We suggest you seek out the help of a trained professional for help with your child's specific situation.