Rhandyl: [00:00:00] Hey y'all. Welcome back to the podcast. So today we are going to talk about dumb things people say. This phrase is something that I'm sure everyone, especially listening has been told, or anyone that has gone through something challenging in their life is God won't give you more than you can handle.

And Deonna and I were talking about this before and it's probably something that we said like back in our naive lives when we had never had anything that , we felt like. We couldn't handle ourselves. , But now I've been told this many times throughout my life with ups and downs and oh man, it rubs me the wrong way for sure.

And so today we have a guest on Chad Bird. He is an Old Testament scholar. He's an author of many books and hosts, a podcast called 40 Minutes in the Old Testament. He is a former pastor and professor, but he is also my uncle, and I'm so excited to have you on. So Chad and I have a personal insight on each other's [00:01:00] ups and downs in life through family, and I couldn't think of a better guest to talk to about this topic today.

So Chad, do you wanna introduce yourself about your work, your family, anything you'd like to start out with? 

Chad: First off, just thank you both for having me on. Been looking forward to talking about this. This is also one of my least favorite things that I hear people say. And just like you I, I used to say this in my younger years.

So I I live in Texas the eastern part of Texas. I'm married to Stacy, and together we have four children two boys, two girls, three with us still in this life, and one with one with our Lord. I do work for a nonprofit called 1517, and I just get to do what I love. I love to talk about the bible, love to talk about the gospel, love to talk about Jesus, and get to do that really in my own particular wheelhouse, which is the Old Testament. So, just a lot of great opportunities God has given me to podcast, teach, to write. So very thankful that I'm able to do what I [00:02:00] do. 

Rhandyl: Yes, I remember, before 1517, and whenever you were able to join this community, I remember thinking, oh my gosh, this is perfect for you. So I'm so glad that you get to, to do what you love and travel around the world and just share the gospel with so many people. And not only through your speaking, but through your socials. I mean, you have such an amazing insight and I love listening to all of your things. ,

But we'll get into it. So God won't give you more than you can handle. Is this actually biblical? And if it's not, where did it likely come from? What are your thoughts? 

Chad: Yeah. It's like this saying is like a lot of the sayings that we have it can sound very biblical. Mm-hmm. In fact, we might say, inspired by, or kind of riffing off of something in the Bible. There's a lot of things like that that sound very biblical sound like. Yeah, that's a, it's a religiously accurate saying, but then when you actually compare it with the scriptures, you're like, oh, actually no this isn't what the Bible says.

Right? In fact, often it's [00:03:00] directly contrary to what the Bible says. So what's going on here is when people say God won't give you more than you can handle. I think the idea behind that came from a verse in, in 1 Corinthians, so in one Corinthians 10, Paul's writing to a church that like churches today has a lot of issues.

The church in Corinth was probably a funny place to be because you, you had, oh my goodness, you had so many things going on there that were, well, some were good, but there was just a lot of things that were not good. , The Corinthian church was definitely the burr under Paul's saddle. He just was always having problems with him. So anyway, he wrote a couple letters to that church. And uh, in this first letter in chapter 10 he's been talking about the temptation to turn away from the one true God to, to false gods. And, for the Corinthians, that was an ever pressing temptation. You you couldn't walk down the street without seeing temples and statues and everything devoted to all kinds [00:04:00] of gods goddesses.

I like to compare it to today, like how many screens do you see per day? Right? Right. Everywhere you go, you can't even fill up your car without seeing a screen. Mm-hmm. We'll just take that and think about how many gods and goddesses there were in the ancient world. That was kind of like the screens of today. Everywhere you look, you see one.

Okay. So in this context, Paul says to this church that, no one should think that he stands. He should take heed lest he fall. In other words, don't be full of yourself and be full of self-confidence. And then he goes on to say, no temptation has overtaken you except what is common to man. God is faithful and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation, he will also provide the way of escape that you may be able to endure it. Mm-hmm.

Okay. So that's the verse where people will get this idea that God won't give you more than you can handle. But what is he actually saying? He's talking about temptation. Yeah. He's talking [00:05:00] about idolatry. He's talking about all the various temptations that they face us. And Paul is telling the Corinthians, Hey, God is not going to let you be tempted beyond your ability. In fact, when you are, he's gonna give you a way of escape so that you can endure this temptation, right? Mm-hmm. 

So that's actually what the Bible teaches. What the Bible doesn't teach is that God will never give you more than you can handle. I think that is kind of a, it's a riff off this verse. Mm-hmm. Even though it's a misinterpretation, but here's where things get really dicey. This is a biblical sounding language, but it's really nothing more than our own culture's optimism and our, I think you'd have to call it an addiction to self-reliance.

Rhandyl: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Chad: I mean, we are in a we're in a culture that's all about self and all about self-reliance and mm-hmm. And pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and all those sorts of things. I mean, that just is, it's in the [00:06:00] milk that we receive. It's as an infant, it's just so much a part of the way that we think. So anyway, , that's where the expression comes from. It's a misapplication and kind of a twisting of what the scriptures actually teach. 

Rhandyl: Yeah. Someone told me this and I was in a very hard time in my life. I remember when it triggered me the most. Remi was in the hospital in Houston and things were so touch and go, and I don't even remember who it was, but the first time someone told me that, and I was like, then that doesn't make any sense. I am like thinking about that over and over in my head. And I'm like, well, if God won't gimme more than I can handle, then why do I need him? Yes he does. Mm-hmm. I'm, I cannot handle this by myself. And so, yeah. I think the cultural aspect of, our generation and our world is so much the Yolo and you do you but man, like when you say this to someone that is. Going through [00:07:00] something, whatever it might be, something very challenging. Sad. Anything it's like, no that's why you have to lean on him because no you, you can't handle this on your own. So, I like how you brought up the Corinthians. 'cause that's where where people get that from but , okay.

So what biblical examples were people were clearly given more than they could handle on their own. That you could speak of that kind of debunks, this whole theory or phrase? 

Chad: Yeah, we could probably do a hundred podcast episodes just on that, on that alone. Pretty much every biblical Exactly. It's name everyone in the Bible who's struggling with something. Take your pick. Yeah let me get some examples.

But I do wanna, the way you phrase that is, is such a good way to, to put this too, because Yeah. When people say God won't give you more than you can handle, the emphasis is really upon the you, isn't it? 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. 

Chad: You got this, right. [00:08:00] We, that's another one of these cultural phrases we throw on, oh, you got this? Mm-hmm. So it's basically, you got this with some religious language thrown in, right? Oh, you got this. 'cause God's not gonna give you more than you can handle. I mean, yeah. Just put effort into it. 

Deonna: That was my reaction. Like when Rhandyl was saying hers was contemplating this question when people were saying this to me. And I will tell you, they weren't saying it to my husband. They were only saying it to me. And so it was a huge pressure on me. Like I remember thinking like what you're saying, I have to do this on my own. I didn't contemplate it the healthy way that Rhandyl did. It was more like, I have to do this. It's all on me. Even though I had faith in God at that time, it's very different than now. But it really felt like I have to suck it up and do this. And if I don't know what's gonna happen. So, I mean, what you're about to say that's the path I went down with this.

Chad: Yeah. And think of what that does to a person. Mm-hmm. 'cause what if you are in a [00:09:00] situation as we all are in where you can't handle it, then all of a sudden, what's wrong with me? Right? Mm-hmm. Why can I not handle this? Evidently there's something fundamentally off with me. Mm-hmm. And then when you add to it, if you have the get personality, which I think all three of us probably have, where we are go-getters. Mm-hmm. And we do, go at life just as much as we can close to a hundred percent, and then we can't handle it. It's like, oh, it's even more defeating, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's like my, it's like a failure. I, this is awful. I can't handle it, but I know I, I should be able to handle it. I guess that's what people are telling me. 

Mm-hmm. So now you got guilt, you got shame, you got all kinds of negative stuff that, that builds up. All as a result of telling people, Hey, this is all up to you. Like we're mm-hmm. Right. Like each of us is Atlas with the world on top of our shoulders. It's just, it's a crazy idea. Mm-hmm.

But rhandyl to, to get to just a couple of examples and I think a couple of these are kind of dark darkly, [00:10:00] humorous and then one 

Rhandyl: we like that we like dark humor. We're okay with that. 

Chad: Yeah. And then one is actually from Paul himself, the one that wrote mm-hmm. First Corinthians. So I got a verse here from his second letter to the church in Corinth too. So lemme start with the Old Testament. So, Elijah was a prophet and he had just, he like, he just had this showdown with some false prophets prophets of the false called Baal. Mm-hmm. And he had won that hands down, no problem.

So you think, oh man, this guy, is gonna be full of of joy and confidence. Well, right after that the King's wife, whose name was Jezebel she said that she was gonna kill Elijah. Well, he just takes off just like with his tail between his legs and runs. It's just as far as he can go.

And this takes us to one Kings 19. We're told that he went a day's journey into the wilderness. He found this tree to get some shade. He sat down and then he asked that he might die. He [00:11:00] said to God, it's enough now. Oh Lord, take away my life. Or I'm no better than my father's. So it's like this prophet who just won this showdown with all these false prophets. Now he's at the point where he's scared of the queen and he just wants to die. The guy's depressed. He's downcast, he's worn out. And this is. God's prophet. 

Mm-hmm. You know, This 

is a famous guy from the Old Testament. This is obviously more than he could handle. 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Chad: Now you go back in, in the Bible to another big name Moses.

So Moses has been sent by God to bring the people out of Egypt and he's leading them through the wilderness. And kinda like the Corinthian congregation, the Israelite congregation was just a terrible bunch of grumblers and complainers. They had all kinds of problems at one point, this is numbers 11, Moses says to God, I am not able to carry all this people alone.

The burden [00:12:00] is too heavy for me. If you, I just love the way people talk to God back then. He says, if you will treat me like this, kill me at once. If I find favor in your sight, that I may not seem, oh, dramatic. Yeah. Drama. He's pretty dramatic. But it's I can't do this. Mm-hmm. I can't take care of all these people.

The burden is too heavy for me. So if this is the way you're gonna treat me, God, well just take me out 'cause I can't do it anymore. Mm-hmm. Now that doesn't sound to me like someone who's saying to himself that God won't give you more than he can handle. In fact, it's just the opposite. God has definitely given Moses more than he can handle.

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Chad: Yeah. And the one more verse. So this is actually the best, in my opinion, the best verse to quote. To refute this idea about God giving, not giving you more than you can handle. So this is second Corinthians one, and this is Paul talking to the church in Corinth. He says, I don't [00:13:00] want you to be unaware, brothers of the affliction that we experienced in Asia for we were, listen to this, we were so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself.

Mm-hmm. In fact, he says, we felt that we had received the sentence of death. Now that's pretty obvious what he the extent to which he is overburdened by life. But listen, notice the way he ends. But that was in all of this. In other words, all of this happened that was to make us rely not on ourselves, but on God who raises the dead.

I think that the reason that's so important is because Paul is saying, listen, we were, it could not have been worse. I mean, we felt like we had received a sentence of death itself. Yeah. But we were ugly burden beyond our own strength. And what was God's message to us and all of this. Well, God was making us realize that we shouldn't [00:14:00] rely on ourselves, but on him, on God to raise His raise to death.

Exactly. So rather than God not giving Paul more than he could handle, God actually did give Paul more than he could handle, like on purpose. 

Rhandyl: Yeah. In 

Chad: order that Paul might learn from that. Not to rely on himself, not to rely on his own strength, but instead to rely on God who, if he can give life from the dead, if he can raise people from the dead, can certainly raise.

Us up to hope from despair and raise us up to to faith from doubt, raise us up to where he wants us to be, no matter how difficult life might be. 

Rhandyl: Yeah, I, those three examples, I mean, especially the first two, wanting to die like the Lord just take me out. I can't do it anymore.

Those are such great examples. 'cause it's like you said, it's they've reached like the point of where they no longer want to live on this earth. And so as you were talking [00:15:00] I was thinking about times in my life where I remember thinking, especially in the beginning with all of the trials that I've experienced, especially with my daughter, that it was.

I remember my first thought was , that God was punishing me in particular for like sins that I, from my past or that I was somehow being punished and be, and I was, I remember just pleading a lot in the beginning, like pleading for obviously forgiveness for whatever I thought that I was being punished for, but also just replace her suffering and put it on me, let her be healthy, that was where my mindset was for a while.

And then it just clicked. When she was about, I guess it was really when we were in Boston when she was having her big surgery at two years old, and I just, I remember all these [00:16:00] decisions were, I felt like. I was having to make. And so I remember just falling to my knees and just being like, I, there, there's nothing in my control.

Obviously she's going to suffer. We're all suffering. Things aren't going to go the way that I want them to, but that mm-hmm. That was just the, my just, it was an awakening that, okay, like I have tried to handle all of this. And that was when I was just like, it's all in your hands.

I just backed away. And then, so those are the times for me. Whenever things are just like, I am not in control of anything that I definitely, I even just begged him to just if take my life for hers. I mean, I, there's so many instances and so yeah, I can relate to those scriptures in that way where I was just pleading and I know now [00:17:00] that, God's not punishing me through like my daughter's suffering, but I did feel like that a lot.

And so, yeah. 

Deonna: Yeah. When we talked to your friend on our podcast about the church and disability, I remember when you're talking about these stories our culture's very I don't know when this happened. I don't know when this happened. In our world where you're not allowed to get upset anymore and you're not allowed to publicly say these things that Moses was saying or Elijah was saying.

It's like people are like, that makes them really uncomfortable. I think people just expected me to be okay because that made them feel more comfortable if I was okay. But we all three have been through moments I'm sure where, I mean, I was like that, like I was like, take me to today.

I don't even care. I literally did not care. , But your friend was telling us that, in the Bible they were lamenting and he said, you need to [00:18:00] bring that back. But it was really funny to me because, if we acted like Moses or Elijah, or any of those things and said those things to our friends, they would.

I don't know. I don't think we'd have a good reaction from even Christians that are supposedly believing all of these things. They would be like, oh, well you'll be okay. You'll be okay. And I've had that happen where people ask me, are you okay? I am like, oh no, I'm actually like not good. This is happening and you get these comments and it just kills me.

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Deonna: But I do think these are good reminders to us that you can have these kind of lamenting meltdowns a little bit and just be like, tell God I can't do this. I cannot do this. I tell God all the time, oh my gosh, I'm freaking out. I can't do this. And other people don't hear me say it, but it happens all the time [00:20:00] because I really can't.

But I, the old me thought I could for sure. But yeah, the whole lamenting and having these freakouts to God, I feel like. Nobody does that anymore. So I, I've started doing that in the last five years for sure. 

Chad: Yeah, that is, and that's great. And that's one of the things that we learned in, in, in suffering is that all the dishonesty of our prayers before then.

Deonna: I know. I mean, 

Chad: we, yeah. It's

Deonna: it's h hilarious. We're We're 

Chad: trying to use all this nice language toward God, even though we're bleeding from the inside, and we, but we don't want to be honest with God. 

Rhandyl: Yeah. 

Chad: Because if we're honest with God, then it's gonna come out as well, some pretty raw, jagged language, right?

Yeah. And then you turn to the Psalms, which you probably talked about on that episode, and it's oh my goodness, these guys are taking God to task. And yeah. 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: They're saying, where are you and why is this going on, and how long is it gonna happen? And one of, one of the Psalms ends by saying. [00:21:00] To God just go away and leave me alone that I, so I can have some peace.

When's the last time you heard somebody pray that in church, right? Mm-hmm. People would 

Deonna: be like, you need to come over here. We need to have a little intervention afterwards. 

Chad: Sure. Yeah. They're want, they'd want to to medicate you or Yeah. Do something anyway. 'cause that please don't ever again, they don't that as unhealthy language.

Well, that it's biblical language. Yeah. Because this is how people talk when they're going through trials and tribulations. Mm-hmm. And they actually know that God hears them. 

Rhandyl: Yeah. They 

Chad: don't politely fold their hands and, oh, sweet Jesus. I thank you for this tribulation. No. They're like, 

Deonna: what are 

Chad: you doing?

I don't understand. 

Deonna: Mm-hmm. It's funny because it's one of the beautiful 

Chad: things about learning lament. It actually frees you to be honest with God. Yeah. 

Deonna: Well, and it's funny 'cause my prayers, like you're saying, they've changed a lot because yeah, I used to be very flowery and I was worried, even between just me and God, like how I sounded , which is so dumb.

But now [00:22:00] there's so much more, I don't know, repetitive and basic than they used to be. Like there's times where I'm literally just God, please help me. Please help me. Please help me. I just say that like when she's coding or something like that, it's not I don't know, they're more desperate than they were.

Rhandyl: Yeah. And 

Deonna: I don't think I ever had a desperate prayer before 2020, which is sad and crazy, but I just, I don't know. It's like the need for him is different than it was, even though it was always there. Now I know I was gonna ask you guys, have you seen the new cartoon movie, David?

We, 

Rhandyl: I took the kids to see it a few weekends ago. It's so good. 

Deonna: Yeah, well, we went and saw it and it really made an impact on Allie, who's my disabled daughter. Because in the movie, obviously he gets more than he can handle on many occasions. And during the Goliath moment, you think he's gonna be scared or something.

I think that's what Allie thought [00:23:00] he was just gonna be nervous or trembling or, whatever. And , there was this theme through the whole movie. He just kept saying, well, God's with me and I'm gonna be fine. And it was this huge. Think for her, and sometimes it has to be shown in a movie for you to have it come alive as a kid.

But it really was a impactful thing her seeing that. And I said, that's how you can feel about it too. I mean, he's no more special than you or different than you. So, that I think that movie was really cool, kind of bringing that idea out to kids. Yes. It was 

Rhandyl: good. It was such a wonderful betrayal of Yeah.

Of David. Yeah. I haven't 

Chad: seen the movie yet, but I mean that is one of the beautiful things about the life of, about the life of David is mm-hmm. Happy we meet him. He's just a teenager. Yeah. He was young. He was just, he's just a kid. 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: But yeah, he had learned, and he learned through all of life's ups and downs after that, that his only help and comfort and strength was God [00:24:00] And 

Rhandyl: mm-hmm.

Chad: Every time he kind of got full of himself and full of self-reliance, well, that's when he'd fall flat in his face. So 

Rhandyl: yeah, he learned 

Chad: a lot of painful truths through his sin, through 

Rhandyl: mm-hmm. 

Chad: All of the struggles that his family faced many of which were kind of result of what he had done with Bathsheba.

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. But 

Chad: yeah. And the, one of the great things about David is that he gave us about half of the Psalms. Mm-hmm. So many of the Psalms that we were talking about that are Psalms of Lament came from David himself. Yeah. So God used his own suffering as a blessing to millions of believers throughout the centuries as we pray his prayers.

Deonna: Well, and that's how sometimes me and Rhandyl have talked about this. You feel like you're going through this sometimes, even if it's just so other people can see God working and it's tough. And you go through these horrible things and you don't know why, but sometimes it does feel that way, even though it's not easy.

So that kind of leads into our [00:25:00] next thing. And nobody taught me this at all, but I just believed sometimes as a kid that if you were a Christian, your suffering was gonna be limited. It wasn't gonna be as bad as other people's. And I, I don't know why I would've even thought that.

That's crazy. Especially when you look at Jesus's apostles or, just different things like that. But where do you think that kind of idea comes from the, and then how does God provide that help within our suffering? 

Chad: Yeah, I think that might be a particularly Americanized twisting o of scripture.

It's this idea that if you have enough faith 

Rhandyl: mm-hmm. 

Chad: Then God is gonna reward you with protection and rescue you from all kinds of suffering. Whether it's prosper, whether financial suffering or physical suffering or emotional suffering. Now the dark side of that, which people a lot of times don't stop to think about, is how devastating that is when life actually happens to you.[00:26:00] 

Mm-hmm. And you do have financial, emotional, physical suffering because then what conclusion can you, inev will you inevitably come to? 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. I don't have 

Chad: enough faith. 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: Right. If I had enough faith, if I just trusted God enough, then he would heal my child. If I just trusted God enough, then I wouldn't be losing my job and losing my home or losing my health or whatever it might be.

Mm-hmm. 

Rhandyl: Yeah. 

Chad: So that's a as I say, a particular. Americanized twisting of what the Bible actually teaches. And it all as most of these things do, it all puts us back. Puts it back on me. On me. Right. That's what I've gotta do this. That's 

Rhandyl: what I'm like, yeah.

That theory to me, it just blows my mind. 'cause it's like how, I don't understand how you, if you have faith in God, and then something does happen, like you said, and you're like, wait, am I really?

Then you start contemplating whether or not, you could flip. I mean, we've talked about this a lot, Deonna, and I have on, and I'm sure you can [00:27:00] too. I feel like people that go through like really traumatic things sometimes it's like a 50 50, they'll, you either lean toward God or.

Or they go away. Like they, they're like, no, there's no way that, that he can be here with me if these things are going to, these things are happening to me. Mm-hmm. And so yeah, that makes the Americanized version of the suffering and faith. It, it's very detrimental to. To faith in general.

I, I agree. Yeah.

Deonna: I had Christians actually saying to me when I was having to tell people, Hey, my daughter's not going to return to her previous state. This is, most likely a permanent thing. And they were saying stuff to the effect of well, if you have faith, it's going to work out and she's going to get better if you have faith.

And and people were saying the whole hedge of protection thing, well, God's putting that around her and [00:28:00] he's not gonna let anything happen to her. And I'm like, well, it already did happen. So it's like past tense already. But yeah, that was really hard on me when people were saying stuff like that.

That was another, maybe that's a whole nother episode, but it was, yeah, that was brutal for them to be putting my daughter's injury on my. Faith or lack thereof. I mean, that was insane. I didn't get too offended by that. 'cause I thought that was just so dumb. But it was tough. I mean, to hear that from people you maybe respected before, Yeah.

And 

Chad: it ignores so many biblical passages that talk about the trials and tribulations that are gonna face us in this life. Right. Yeah. 

Deonna: You're literally told you're gonna face 'em. 

Chad: Yes. Right. It's not like these things might happen to you. It's no, th this will happen to you. 

Deonna: Yeah. It's just, I do remember it saying when instead of if I remember right.

Chad: Yeah. So I I think the reason it's so dangerous is it puts everything back on us and then it also [00:29:00] can give us a very warped view of God. Almost as if he's just a tyrant who's out to, to squash us like a bug. 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: And both, of course, both of those are extremely detrimental to our understanding of what the faith is.

Mm-hmm. So it makes us look at ourselves and what's wrong with me? I got, I guess I don't believe enough. Maybe I don't believe at all. Maybe I'm not even a Christian. Mm-hmm. So, and then at the same time, it gives us a very warped picture of who God is, as if he doesn't really care about us and he's waiting for us to do our part, and then mm-hmm.

On our part, then he'll step in and he'll give us healing or he'll give us financial recovery or whatever it might be. 

Deonna: Yeah. 

Chad: All of which is not even loosely based on the Bible. It's antithetical to what the scriptures actually teach. 

Deonna: Yeah, no, you're right. So how does this phrase, the God doesn't give you more than you can handle, align or conflict with , us depending on God or our human weakness and reliance on him?[00:30:00] 

Chad: Yeah. So what the Bible teaches us is directly contrary to what this proverb says about God won't give us more than we can handle because here's the way that God actually works. So his goal in the sufferings that we endure is primarily for us to kind of be at the place that you were talking about earlier, Rhandyl, where you say, I, I.

I can't handle this I can't control this. Mm-hmm. I don't have it in me to be able to take care of whatever the situation is that we're facing. That's precisely where God can then begin to do his best work in our life. Because then it's only then are our eyes truly opened to where we realize.

That it's always been that way, yeah. So it's easy for me right now, and I'm sitting in a warm house and mm-hmm. I'm here in my study and I, today I'm very healthy and my wife's across on the other side of the house, and we have a happy [00:31:00] marriage. And so it's easy for me to think, oh, I've got life under control.

You everything's just fine. I'm not dead. I'm employed and all this. Mm-hmm. It's very healthy, easy for me then to begin to think, oh yeah, man, look at what a great job you've done, Chad, and you've got full control of everything happening right now. So, whereas the truth is, I have no control over these things.

Mm-hmm. Any good that I experience is a gift and a work of God. So what happens to me sometimes is that my eyes are open to the fact, and this has happened in small and in major ways in my life. My eyes are open to the fact that. Every good thing I have is from God. Mm-hmm. And he's the one who's providentially ordering my life.

And he's my strength and he's my life. And he's given me all of these wonderful gifts that I enjoy and I don't deserve any of them. So I can't handle life, but God can. [00:32:00] And what God does is he gives me the strength, he gives me the grace in order that I might understand. It's all him and it's not me.

Mm-hmm. And whatever I do is gonna be based upon his strength and his work in and in, in and through me. That's, it's one of the things about suffering. No one wants to suffer. No one wants to be in these hard places. And no one should ask for that either. But it will happen. And it happens in different ways in everyone's life.

But the goal is always the same. It's like Paul says, when I'm weak, then I'm strong. The irony is that when I'm weak in myself, it means that I actually am aware of the weakness I've had all along. 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: And I'm also then aware that Christ is my strength. And the way I could put it is this he's emptying me of me in order that there might be more room , for him in me.

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: I'm so full of myself most of the time, that God needs to reduce my ego 

Rhandyl: and [00:33:00] 

Chad: this myth of self-reliance that I buy into in order that I might realize, oh, yeah. From the moment that I was conceived to the moment I leave this world, it's God and God alone, who's my strength and my hope and my confidence and my reliance.

And it's never me. I'm not in control of this thing called life. He is. Mm-hmm. Instead. 

Deonna: Yeah that's a good way of thinking about it. I, even with Allie I mean, you never wanted to be a parent who loses a child. Me and Rhandyl didn't really want to do this, and I don't think, when we got married, we thought this was gonna be our life.

Having girls that we were scared every day, we weren't gonna have the next day and things. But I even used to think, I before all this happened, it was all about me. It was all about my life. And, it was all about me. And even Allie. It felt like Allie belonged to me. And I kind of think of her now as like on loan to me from [00:34:00] God, which I don't know if that's the right way to think of it, but it, she's not really mine.

I mean, I get to be her mom while we're here, but. She's just on loan to me, and it's been an interesting change of everything. I don't really, like even we were talking about, I used to care about my house and my stuff and all that, and we were talking the other day like, what would you grab if your house was on fire?

And I'm like, I don't know. I mean, maybe my laptop with my photo, my phone. I don't know. I was like I like don't even care about any of that anymore. So it's cool how suffering can realign you in a radical way. And I know Rhandyl's Oh yeah. Experience that too. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely puts everything into 

Rhandyl: perspective.

Mm-hmm. For sure. 

Chad: Yeah. When you were talking about your child was on loan from God, it reminded me of that years ago I started trying to change the way that I talk about my children and instead always talking about our children. For that [00:35:00] very reason that, yeah, I'm a father, an earthly father to children, but I share them with my Heavenly Father.

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: And so it, for me, that, that switch actually was really helpful because I realized that God gave me these children to care for, but ultimately they're much more God's children than mm-hmm. Than they are mine. And that helps me too, when, when I'm thinking about the loss of Luke or the struggles that my children who are still with me in this world go through that it.

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: They're not just mine they're God's children. 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: One more thought too that when you were talking, that, that came to my mind is that, how often in life we have to begin to think differently about the future. You said that when you got married, when you had children, you didn't really envision things being the way that they are.

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: So you had a certain assumption that the future would follow these steps, right? It would be like this Oh easy path. 

Rhandyl: Yeah. 

Chad: This would be the path. And that's one of the [00:36:00] things I learned very soon after losing Luke, is that you have to reconfigure your expectations of the future.

Mm-hmm. Because even though the future hadn't happened, obviously still, you expect, okay, he's gonna graduate from the Naval Academy this year and he's gonna get out and he's gonna serve, and he's gonna find a wife and they're gonna have kids, and,

Rhandyl: Yeah. Mm-hmm. The 

Chad: future kind of mapped out. 

Rhandyl: Yeah.

Chad: And then when you lose a child, or when something happens to a child, or a lot of things in life mm-hmm. You're like, oh, okay. So none of that's gonna be the way I expected it to be. 

Rhandyl: No. And 

Chad: so you have to reconfigure your future with either things adjusted or things that just are never gonna happen.

And that has a way also of recalibrating what's important to you. You begin to treasure the present and you begin to treasure the past as well. And then you also learn to live with hope, knowing that the future's in the hands of God. Mm-hmm. And that ultimately his good and gracious will is [00:37:00] gonna be accomplished in our lives.

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: So anyway, just a couple of thoughts based upon what you were saying That been helpful. Helpful to me. 

Rhandyl: Yeah. Chad. I wanted to talk about, you've mentioned Luke a few times and, for our listeners that, that may not know the story and losing Luke early in life and how, I'm sure you were told this phrase possibly during that time, which is unfathomable. But how did it make you feel when you were told this after?

I mean, I losing, especially in this sense of when you lost your son. 

Chad: Yeah. I think thankfully I was at the point where I, I realized the, yeah. The inaccuracy of the statement. Sure. But I, it makes you want to say to whoever says that you really don't have any idea what it's like to mm-hmm.

Be in a situation where not only do you have a [00:38:00] little more than you can handle, you can't even handle this hour 

Rhandyl: mm-hmm. Of this 

Chad: particular day, of this particular week. Because all of life seems surreal at the moment. Mm-hmm. And you're just having a hard time getting out of bed and making it through another day, trying your best just to hold it together.

There is, everything is too much to handle, yeah. Even thinking through a coherent thought and speaking a coherent sentence and thinking, okay what's next? And what am I gonna feel like tomorrow? Is tomorrow gonna be the hell that today was, or is it mm-hmm. Is it gonna be a little bit better?

And then sometimes you take one step forward and the next day you take six steps back. So yeah, it was a, I mean, it's kind of a unreal thing to hear when someone says that to you in those kind of situations. Yeah. Because you wanna take their face in your hands and say, listen, I'm in a place where [00:39:00] I can't handle anything, so if that were true, then I don't wanna have anything to do with a God who uh, will not gimme more than, more than I can handle, which, thankfully that is untrue.

And yeah, it's in those situations when we have way more than we can handle emotionally, that God is reminding us that despite the fact you're feeling this way, despite all the pain and the grief and the uncertainty about the future. I'm still, God, I'm still good. I love you. And our son is with me at peace.

Mm-hmm. Everything is well with him, and yes, you will get there also. It will be a long and a difficult and an uphill journey, but you will get to the place too where, you will be able to wake up in the morning and it won't be the very first thought when you get outta bed.

Yeah. You'll it a lot through your first cup of coffee. You'll make it through the morning before that comes into your head again. And it's [00:40:00] true. We lost Luke in 2022 and here we are in 2026 and Wow. He's not the first thing I think about every morning, and I do make it through my first cup of coffee mm-hmm.

Without thinking of that loss. So I never make it through a day. Of course. 

Rhandyl: No. Yeah. 

Chad: Nor do I want to. 

Rhandyl: Sure. But, 

Chad: Yeah. But. I'm in a, I'm in a better place now. 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm.

Chad: More healing has taken place. The wound is always gonna be there. The scar is always gonna be there. It's not like you get past these things, but what you do get past is the most painful part of that experience.

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: And you move into a different part of life where you learn more reliance on God, and you learn to lean more into hope. And when you have bad days, you also learn to borrow hope from the past. And to, I like that. Realize, hey, I've been in this bad place before and God got me through it.

Mm-hmm. And he'll through this day I've been even worse than I am today. [00:41:00] And God got me through that. He will get me through this as well. So it's a long learning in the school of suffering, but the learning continues. 

Deonna: We have our PhD in it now. Yes we do. Yeah. I like, my brother died in 2022 and so my parents lost their son in 2022 as well.

And it's funny 'cause I had a few years of this extreme suffering going through like everything with Ali before that happened. And so when people would tell me this phrase with Ally, I kind of believed it and I took that on as like a pressure and a burden. But then when people said that to me with my brother and all of that, it was more like I kind of had two different thoughts when people would say that to me.

Sometimes I'd be like, wow. How lucky are you to have never been through something where you even thought you needed God? Because like how easy is [00:42:00] your life? That's how mine used to be. But then on the flip side of that, I was like, how sad that you think I'm gonna get through this? It was the worst time in my life.

Yeah. Without God. That's so, so offensive to me as a fellow Christian that you think that I can be without my best friend, without God. That's just so insane. So, I mean, I would have really extreme reactions to that, but yeah it's like everything you're saying, I feel as far as like loss it's so brutal.

And without God I don't know, I wouldn't have made it through it. Right. It was brutal.

Rhandyl: So what do you think, Chad, what would your suggestions be for believers to say instead of this phrase mm-hmm. God will give you more than you can handle. 

Chad: Yeah. My wife Stacy and I have talked about that in, various situations. It's I, people honestly, they do struggle with what to [00:43:00] say, especially they haven't been through, something.

That's life shattering. 

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

It's, 

Chad: and it comes from different places. Some people just wanna they just want to say something positive, to have upset something. Some people actually do really wanna say something meaningful and it's difficult. Mm-hmm. Actually, it's difficult to know, even for me now, it's difficult to know in every situation what is the, what's the best thing to, to say.

Mm-hmm. 

Rhandyl: And I think 

Chad: It kind of depends too on how recent, whatever the person's going through, how recent this has happened. 

Rhandyl: Yeah.

Chad: If like on the first few weeks after we lost Luke, I don't know what anyone could have said to me that would've made any difference whatsoever.

Honestly, nothing. Some of the best things that people said to me were just nonverbal. Mm-hmm. The hugs, the, they came up and they hugged me, or they said, I love you. 

Deonna: Mm-hmm.

Chad: Whatever it might be, the bravery that's always to 

Deonna: even come up to you. I mean, that's so intimidating. 

Chad: Yeah. Yeah. Just to, every people talk about the Ministry of [00:44:00] presence and 

Rhandyl: mm-hmm.

Chad: I think that is true of just being there mm-hmm. And letting people know, I care about you. Yeah. Show up and I'm so sorry. And I love you and whatever you might need from me, just let me know and I'm here for you. Mm-hmm. Just that makes a big difference, and then maybe later on people are more open to encouragement that comes in different forms.

But for me anyway, just, I don't know, just knowing that people love me 

Rhandyl: Yeah. 

Chad: And cared about me mm-hmm. Were there for me that mm-hmm. Made a huge difference. Because suffering can be very isolating. 

Deonna: Yeah. Oh yeah. Make you 

Chad: feel like you're alone and you're 

Deonna: the only one. 

Chad: You're the only one. And I mean, what both of you're doing in the podcast is fantastic because you're letting.

Lots of people know they're not alone. Yeah. Mm-hmm. This, that they haven't, you're not the only ones going through this. And that's another thing that actually was surprisingly helpful to me, is knowing how many people have gone [00:45:00] through what I'm going through, what am and was going through, and that God did bear them up through that.

And in, in our family and with Rhandyl and me we have a part of our broader family a couple lost a son and Mildred and Delmar I'm talking about. Yeah. And, knowing that they experienced that kind of loss and went on and raised their other two sons and 

Rhandyl: mm-hmm. 

Chad: Have grandchildren and great grandchildren and, led a joyful life.

Well that. That made an impact on me, just that story alone. So I think knowing that you're part of a community of sufferers does help. And simply by being there for them and letting them know that you love them and care for them, and that you're part of this larger community is very encouraging to people.

Mm-hmm. So they don't feel alone. 

Rhandyl: Yeah. I agree with you. It's, there's [00:46:00] things, sometimes just not saying anything is better than trying to say something. Mm-hmm. And that goes for a lot of the dumb things people say that we've talked about in the past. Sometimes it's just better to not say anything.

Just a long hug and a simple, I love you, or, I'm here for you, is better than any phrase that. You can come up with any positive. So I mm-hmm. Yeah. And like you mentioned our podcast, I mean, yeah. We all three know. I mean, being, raising a with Jan and I and I can speak for myself I have never felt so alone the first few years, after Remi was born and home and it's so isolating. And that was almost 10 years ago and. There weren't a lot of outlets at that time that I could find, or people [00:47:00] that I knew personally. No, I felt so alone, like nobody understands what I'm going through. And then slowly finding different groups that weren't like toxic and just, and then, yeah, there was just this pull on my heart for years, like that I wanted to do something.

But unlike you I'm not a writer. Like a, that's not something that I'm as confident in. And so 'cause people would be like, you should write a book, you should blog. And that's not me. And so, but I'm also didn't wanna put my entire life on YouTube or so yeah. So then this.

Podcasts and getting Deonna involved, and we just did it. It's definitely, I think it was something, it was a godsend for me, and I really do hope that, and I know because we get so many direct messages and comments and reviews people that [00:48:00] find connection with what we're doing because they realize and they listen.

That, they're not alone and that they have these same feelings that we openly talk about. That one before, I would've never said those things because it's kind of like we were saying earlier, taboo to really be vulnerable and talk about your suffering. And so, but then in doing that, you are helping others that may be feeling the same way, so mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's just been. It's been wonderful and you bringing up the whole isolation and suffering part and just letting people know that you're there for them is so important. Mm-hmm. 

Chad: And we need we need more vulnerability in in the church amongst Christians too. Yeah. Because we easily kind of adopt, again, we're just adopting kind of a cultural norm where you're supposed to act like you've got everything together all the time.

Yeah. You're all put together emotionally and everything's great. Everyone's [00:49:00] playing this game of deceiving themselves and deceiving other people because we all know. Mm-hmm. You look, you can look over any group of people and about 99% of those people have something. Bad going on in their life.

Mm-hmm. Even though they might be smiling and seemingly surrounded by a, quote unquote perfect family. Yeah. There's a lot, there's a lot going on. Every individual, every person's like that. So just being honest about it, saying, yeah, man, I have terrible days and I'm not doing good right now, and 

Rhandyl: mm-hmm.

Chad: And I'm. And I'm really upset with God right now because I don't understand what in the world he's doing with my life. Mm-hmm. And there's times when I love my children, but I do not like them. There are times, 

Rhandyl: yes. Yeah. 

Chad: There's times when I feel that one, they're yours today. God, 

Rhandyl: they're all, yeah.

I don't know how many you take over 

Chad: through another day. Honestly, I'd be happy if I just died in my sleep tonight. Mm-hmm. All that kind of vulnerability and honesty is like pH man. Are you okay? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm saying what you thought too. [00:50:00] You're just afraid to say it. Yeah. 

Rhandyl: Yeah. We're human.

We're human. Yes. 

Chad: Yeah. I'm just being a human here and laying it all out there. I'm saying what everyone else is thinking or has felt. And what happens, at least in my experience, is people are like, thank God you said that. Yeah. 'cause that's exactly the way I felt. I've just been a little bit afraid to say it.

Rhandyl: Mm-hmm. 

Chad: Well, if we're not afraid to say it. If we're more vulnerable, then other people will follow suit and we'll realize we're all in this together. Mm-hmm. And God's in it with us. And he's gonna, he's gonna get us through one, one way, one way or another and surprise us along the way with acts of grace that actually bear us up during those hard times.

Deonna: Oh, I don't know about y'all, but I've been standing in groups before, like in a little circle, and they're asking me how I'm doing, and then I accidentally massively overshare the, the weird stuff that's happening. Or I'll be like, yeah, she almost died last night, but we, we bagged her and she was all right, but she turned [00:51:00] blue and, and you're telling all this, and everyone's just staring at you like, what?

Ooh, why did I ask? And then you feel the pressure to bring the vibe back up. Like you drop it and everyone's completely traumatized. And then you're like, oh, but it's cool. So what are y'all up to? And it's, I mean, I've had that happen so many times and everyone's I had no idea she wasn't.

Like she was still having issues. Stable. Yeah. She is always going to have issues while she's on this earth. I mean, this is our, all the time regular thing, but you know, yeah, it makes me laugh. I'm like, or people will, they don't really say this to me, but to my mom, they'll tell my mom a lot.

Ally's just always smiling. And my mom used to just kind of laugh it off, but now my mom's like, well, no, she's not always smiling. Ally has a very difficult life. Yeah, Deonna might not be sharing the photos of her crying or things like that, but no, she has a [00:52:00] very difficult life and she is not always smiling.

But yeah, people don't wanna think about our kids in that way. And it's, it's too much for them,

. like we were saying. Well, uh, just to kind of wrap it up today, thank you so much for talking about this.

I was really excited when she said she was gonna ask you, 'cause you, you know, all the things and everything and I just thought he's gonna know exactly where this came from and why people are saying it. And so, it's been really fun to get to talk to you. Can you tell people how to follow you and get access to your podcast and things like that before we go?

Chad: Yeah. So, I'm on basically all the social media channels. If someone's on Facebook or Instagram or TikTok or mm-hmm. Or wherever they might be, you can search me there. I put stuff out every day, videos and other written posts just to encourage people and teach 'em more about the scriptures.

You can go to 15 seventeen.org. That is [00:53:00] my the nonprofit I work for. That's our website. And we have my podcast and a lot of other free material there@fifteenseventeen.org. So check out social media, just search for my name, Chad Bird, or 15 seventeen.org, and you'll find that's kinda the hub of all the materials that we offer.

Rhandyl: Awesome. We will definitely add that onto our show notes. So if some of our listeners don't know who you are, they will now. This has been great. I love that you came on with us and we're honored. 

Chad: Thank you for having me. Yeah, just really enjoyed the conversation and God bless each of you and the work that you're doing for the community.

Deonna: Thank you.

**Disclaimer

Before we go, I wanna remind our listeners that this podcast is for the purpose of education and entertainment only, and is not a replacement for seeing a doctor. We suggest you seek out the help of a trained professional for help with your child's specific situation.